Society of Public Historians
2003 Minutes

SPH Minutes For Officers' Meeting 1-11-03

The meeting of the Baker Street Irregulars was called to order by abdicating dictator Sandra
Reddish at 5:30 pm-ish, in her home. Sandra had fixed some kind of English fish and rice dish that
was surprisingly good. Those attending were: Sandra, Charles Lawrence, Josh Yearout, Heidie
Colucci, Theresa St. Romaine and J.D. Hays. As unusual as it sounds, Dru Saddler was absent -
probably having something to do with his aversion to all things Limey.

Sandra's tearful farewell speech left hardly a dry eye, except for those actually in attendance. Josh
gave the Treasurer's stuff to Theresa and the Historian's stuff to Charlie. JD had no official
changeover duties so he was forced to brave the cold and get writing supplies out of his truck so
he could "get his ass to writing." The notes of the meeting are therefore more difficult to read
as JD usually writes with his hands. Theresa had to leave early because she had sense enough to
make other plans. She did stay long enough to see the newest addition to the Jay Price Clothing
Collection. However, the jury is still out as to just how much money can be made by selling Dr.
Price's image. We also received our first/only scholarship application from Teddy Barlow.

The joint Phi Alpha Theta/SPH trip to Treasures of the Czars is in limbo until Dr. Price returns. It
was decided that come hell or high water, SPH would have a trip on Feb. 22, even if we have to
strap people to the top of Heidi's wagon. There may also be a trip to Spivey's in KC so the
bibliophiles of the group can drool over many a Greek epic poem.

Newly crowned dictator Heidi stated that she wants the SPH to become more regular - hopefully by
eating more fiber and also by meeting on the second Saturday of each month. The next meeting of
SPH will be on Feb. 8 at 5pm, possibly at Doc's Steak house so that Sandra's Wichita Diners idea
can fish or cut bait.

Attendance and participation are key concerns of the officers, and much, much, much discussion
ocurred on this topic. SPH is still wanting to get professionals in different historical disciplines
to come and speak to the group. Topics will include "what people hiring people want to see on
your resume besides coffee stains" and "publishing books for dummies", amongst other things. Speakers
will initially include people familiar with our program at WSU and will expand from there as
participation improves. It has not been decided if this will be an all day thing and get it all over
with at once, or whether we will bring the pros in one at a time. Members of SPH may also get to
improve their people skills by taking turns giving speeches at meetings. This will help the rest of
the group get an insight into their fellow SPH'ers and see just what kind of whackballs they are
associating with. Everyone seemed to agree that SPH should strive to become a more professional
organization, but not give up the "fun" stuff like trips to other museums, etc.

The meeting disbanded after everyone took turns trashing Dru, Theresa, and Josh, who also had to
leave early (no, not really - well, we did trash Dru). Charlie and JD waited until Sandra's back
was turned and then loaded as much of her furniture as they could into JD's truck. Sandra
caught them and kicked us all out at 9:30.

Suspectfully submitted,
JD Hays; Son of Scribe

Minutes For SH Officers Meeting 02-08-03

The meeting was called to order by President Heidie Colucci at 5:03 PM at Doc s Steak House in Wichita. Wonder of wonders, all officers were in attendance. Charlie was reminded that he is a real officer and was allowed to sit at the grown-up table. The first order of business was to approve the grant for Teddy Barlow to attend the conference in New Mexico February 12-15. Motion passed unanimously as long as she brings us back some cool stuff. Dr. Price was reminded that the conference was indeed the 12th through 15th and that this is indeed 2003 and not 2002. His 698 class was told that because 2003 snuck up on him that there would be no class this Wednesday. There was great rejoicing.

Heidie reported that we can get $225.00 for the remainder of this semester from SGA. Theresa reported that we have $1091.28 in the Treasury. There was great rejoicing. That said, Heidi is not happy and wants us to earn still more. One way we can do that is to resurrect the Rent-a-Historian project. There may be interest in the Careyville project in Reno County and possibly at the public library in Wichita. Some brave souls might even be interested in doing work for the Balmer Fund in Harper County.

When too many other members showed up, the meeting adjourned.

Minutes for SPH meeting February 8, 2003

The meeting was held at Doc s Steak House at approximately 5:40 PM. A whopping fourteen people were in attendance. After some gratuitous butt-kissing regarding deposed dictator Sandra Reddish, Heidie called the meeting to order. Everyone was forced to give: name, rank, serial number and reasons for being in the public history program. Most members are, believe it or not, interested in history. Most of us want to use SPH as a networking tool except for Theresa. She is just in it for the money. You go girl. Two notable exceptions are: Rob Howell, who is maintaining the web site and otherwise spies for the real historians, and Debbie Amend, the director of education at the Kansas Oil Museum. She has a job, but needs a sheepskin. We are fortunate to have her with us. She may not be so fortunate.

Even though she used English and not French, Theresa reported we have $1091.28 in the bank.
The official Treasures of the Czars trip has been canceled due to the fact that only seven people signed up. We needed 20 to break even. However, the trip is still on. We will meet at the W S U parking lot behind the student union at 7:45 AM on Saturday, February 22. Please see Heidie or Dr. P for details.

The April meeting will be held April 12 in Kansas City. We will first tour the Steamboat Arabia Museum, and then tour a great book store Sandra found called Spivey s. Debbie is our mole at the museum and will try to get us behind the scenes. Sometime during the day, we will eat at Genghis Kahn s for some down-home Mongolian barbecue.

The deadline for submitting a review for the Fairmount Folio is May 1. The reviews can be about a book, a movie or a museum. The book or movie must have come out within the last year. Submissions should be between 300 and 500 words long. Contact Rob Howell for details.
The MPMA conference is in Golden Colorado this fall. They are looking for panel discussion topics, and Heidie will submit one for the group dealing with reenactment vs. re-creation. Living history is becoming more and more important to communities and museums and the group thinks this would be a timely topic.
The resume panel, we re professionals for different areas will come and critique our resumes has been tabled until this summer.
The Kansas Oil Museum will have a new exhibit starting Thursday the 13th entitled: Monday is washday . We have been invited for the opening at 5:00-7:00 PM, where we will see older washing machines in use and be fed beans and corn bread. Tom will bring his laundry.
Our next meeting will be Saturday, March 8 at Angelo s on South Oliver. Time will be announced. The meeting adjourned when we were kicked out of the restaurant about 7:45.

Minutes of the March (2003) meeting of SPH

Meeting was called to order by the Scribe/Herald by order of Queen Heidie; Protectress of Historica, holder of the Chalice of Reece, Heir to the Sacred Rings of Betazed, Laundress of all the Russias. Members attending were: Heidie, Dr. P., JD Hays, Theresa St. Romaine, Charlie Lawrence, Janice Rich, Ben Hruska, Ben Matthaei, Connie Devol and Tammy Weihei. (If I butchered your name, please e-mail me the correct spelling.)

Since those cheap-ass b----ds at Angelo s wouldn t let us meet there without a substantial financial commitment, (sorry, I channeled the former administration there for a moment) we met at Toc s Coffee House at the corner of Harry and George Washington Boulevard at 5:30. Toc s is a neat place that serves good food at a nice price and has the best pecan waffle (pernounced PEE-kan) in the whole block. The grits are a nice touch, too. Theresa waxed nostalgic about her high school days, where Toc s was a favorite place to study the effects of nicotine during the school day.
Since Teddie Barlow was absent in order to attend a dance recital (yeah, right!), Dr. Price told us a little about the Pop Culture conference he and Teddie recently attended in Albuquerque. Teddie s paper was well received and SPH was proud to help defer some of her expenses in the form of a $100 fellowship. (Check s in the mail, Ted.) There were nine panels of Deadheads, a bunch of bikers and some reality TV panels. It was also evidently a good place to meet new people of very diverse interests whether they were from Canada or WSU. The next conference will be in San Antonio.
Highlights of the Phi Alpha Theta/SPH trip to Topeka on Feb. 22:

Connie reported on the Treasures of the Czars exhibit in Topeka. Coming from a Russian background, she seemed impressed with the overall exhibit especially the stuff dealing with Nicholas (the czar, not the saint).

Ben M. reported on the Heartland Orthodox Museum and their exhibit dealing with the Russian influence on native people in Alaska. He seemed especially impressed/surprised/flabbergasted by the native s seeming willingness to peacefully be assimilated into the Russian collective. Hey Ben, resistance is futile after all.

J.D. then reported on the healing properties of the Stuffed Tiger ; a dessert some of us enjoyed at our stop at the Blind Tiger in Topeka after the museums.

Dr. Price informed us that a select group of suckers, er, dedicated individuals are working on a book dealing with the first century of flight. The book will focus on aviation s influence on Wichita, and will be published by Arcadia through cooperation with AIAA. The real winners will be the Kansas Air Museum and SPH. The museum will get some of the proceeds of the book sales, and SPH should get a gratuity of $1000 or so from AIAA. Those working on the project will get the satisfaction of a job well done and get to see their name in print somewhere other than a rap sheet. The core group for the project is in place, but feel free to contact Dr. P. if you really, really want to help.

Between mouthfuls of grits, Theresa reported that we have $1016.28 in the bank.

The next meeting will be a field trip to Kansas City. We plan to leave the CAC parking lot at 7am (yes, 7am) on Saturday, April 19. We will tour the Steamboat Arabia Museum, with a possible behnd-the-scenes tour. The cost is $9.25 per person unless you can pass for 16 or 65. We plan to eat at Genghis Khan s Mongolian Barbeque, and then spend some time at Spivey s bookstore. The plan for the rest of the day will then be left to the group. There is plenty to do in KC. Some plan to go see the snoozefest that will be the Royals-Tigers game. There are also other museums and attractions to see, including the country s oldest mall, the Country Club Plaza. However, some of us will probably be trying to find a U-haul place so we can get our books home.

Other upcoming events:
An oral history workshop called Eyewitness to History will be held at the Smokey Hills Museum in Salina on March 28.
Joyce Thierer will be holding a living history workshop at the Kansas Oil Museum. The cost is $85, but if you re into living history this will be worth it. Please contact Dr. P. for details.
The meeting adjourned at 6:45. Discussion after the meeting centered on the Prez s prom night. For juicy details, ask Heidie. See, Theresa, I don t just pick on you!

J.D. Hays, Scribe

Minutes For SPH Meeting 05 17 03

Time: High Noon
Place: Dr. Price s apartment
Attendees: Dr. Jay Price, Ben and Krissy Matthaei, Theresa St. Romaine, J.D. Hays, Charles Lawrence, Janice Rich, Mark Janzen, Heidie Colucci, Teddie Barlow, Sandra Reddish.
Old Business:
Mark reported on the Steamboat Arabia trip. He thought it a good experience, but was concerned with the lack of conservatorship at the museum. The archeological community had been concerned that the collection was at first planned to be sold piece by piece, but was relieved, albeit guardedly, that the treasure hunters decided to keep the collection together.
Teddie talked about her trip to Albuquerque in February. She presented a paper on Wichita during The Summer of Mercy when the city was deluged with anti-abortion protestors. She seemed to have had a good time. I mean a really good time. She was impressed with the diversity of disciplines at the conference, which dealt with the broad theme of pop culture. This encompassed everything from TV shows to bikers to religion. She was also presented with a Canadian flag in commemoration of her untiring and selfless work to cement relations with our northern neighbor.
The Arcadia book project was updated. Photos have been collected, a marvelous, thought-provoking and witty cover text has been submitted, as have cover photos, and captions are being written. T-shirts and action figures have been ordered and the Sandra Reddish Whack em Where It Hurts wiffle bat is expected to be a great success. We are working on a slide presentation for civic groups that summarizes the century of flight in Wichita.

New Business:
JD and Charlie reported on the status of the trip to Tulsa on June 21. We leave at 7am to travel to the Gilcrease Museum to view the objects d art (that s probably not right but my Frog is a little rusty). After lunch we travel to Claremore to see the Will Rogers Museum for some real culture. More details will be forthcoming. Unfortunately, this is also the weekend of Butler County Days so this may cut into tour attendance.
Janice talked about a trip her church is planning for July 12. On sat. July 12 College Hill United Methodist Church members and anyone else who is interested can go on a day trip to Florence and Cottonwood Falls. At Florence they will tour the museum and be served a roast beef lunch by costumed Harvey girls. Then they will go to Cottonwood Falls and tour the 1870's Chase County courthouse and have some free time to explore the shops
and two small museums in Cottonwood Falls. Transportation will be in vans
and the cost will be $16. Please contact Janice for details.
Theresa reported that we still have $1036.28 in the bank. Charlie reported that we will be purchasing a presentation board for about $300. The board will be used at conferences, etc. to promote WSU s Public History Program.
Dr. Price was presented with some very expensive and thoughtful, practical gifts. The Price Line (not to be confused with the over-actor with the bad toupee) of collectibles has been expanded to include a fan, boxer shorts and a bobble-head doll. He was literally speechless, folks. All he could say was Oh, my! (While curled in the fetal position, rocking in the corner.)
Mark gave a great talk on putting your degree to work in the real world. As Registrar and Collections Manager at the Ulrich Museum of Art at WSU, he had some good insights for those who think that museums might be their bag. One sad statistic seems to be that if you like one particular part of museum work-collections management for example- smaller institutions may not be for you, as the staff is so small everyone must wear many hats. That s why too many museums have stagnant exhibits. We also talked about how the art world may be catering more to the masses in the future and not be so stand-offish. This is especially welcome news to those of us who are art appreciators, but definitely not art historians.
Meeting adjourned about 2pm.
The Scribe

SPH minutes 6-13-03

The SPH officers convened at the home of Mme. President at 7 pm.
Present were Heidie Colucci, Charlie Lawrence, Dr. Jay Price, and
Theresa St.Romain. Absent was scribe JD Hays, who had evidently just
purchased Michael Jackson's 1979 album "Off the Wall" on CD and wanted
to listen to it all evening, but had his wife call the President with
the transparent excuse of "wheat harvest."

First to be discussed was the progress of the Arcadia book project, aka
"Dr. Price and His Seven Dwarfs." All present agreed that it was
indeed progressing, and that they would be glad once it had finished
progressing to the finish. Dr.Price has received information and
responses from people who are eager to contribute to the project or
engage our services for presentations. AIAA team members have been
invited to the Wright Bros dinner in November, sponsored by KAM.
We will create a standard presentation based on the AIAA book, and all
SPH members will have the information to deliver it when required to
"take one for the team." A discussion of fees was tabled until the end
of the summer, though Dr. Price suggested that we may need to keep this
on a "donations accepted" level.
Copies of photo scans will go to their repositories. The Wichita
Public Library will receive a copy of the captions we wrote for their
photos as a thanks.

The President brought up the idea of SPH getting an independent bank
account, so that all our expenditures won't have to go through the
school. She will check on whether this would require a tax ID number.
Meanwhile, Charlie will have to wait a little while to be reimbursed
for the Civil War presentation board.

KMA will hold this year's annual meeting in Ulysses from October 22-24.
The theme is "Changing Roles in Changing Times." Dr. Price suggested
a panel on the logistics of travel and tourism meaning, how do small
towns take care of the tourists they want to draw? A possible speaker
for the panel is Heather Ferguson of the Cherokee Strip Museum.

New officer nominations were postponed until fall so that we can check
out the new 701 class for possibilities. The next president may be
chosen in the famous "broom ceremony," so beware if Mme. President
tries to get you to help sweep her patio.

Minutes for SPH Trip April 19, 2003

The day dawned bright and sunny, a light northerly breeze tickling the treetops, making them shimmer in the early morning sun. Somewhere, I m sure, but it sure as shootin wasn t anywhere in Kansas. Rain fell, and fell and fell. We weren t sure whether we had stumbled into a bad remake of a John Huston film or a Winnie-the-Pooh book. Suffice it to say, it was a bit damp.

This troubled not the stalwart crew of SPH explorers as we set off to explore the Steamboat Arabia Museum, Market Square and Spivey s Maps and Books in Kansas City, and to see if indeed, as the song says, everything is really up to date. Those brave enough to make the journey were: Dr. Jay Price, Heidie Colucci, JD and Delsa Hays, their guest Brian Hare, Fiona Murdoch, Mark Jantzen, Connie Martin, Lori Sherill and Ike Childress. To KC s credit, we found no out-of-date calendars in use.

We straggled into the Arabia museum about 11:15, after learning the hard way that the Broadway exit off of I-70 does not, repeat does not, go through to Grand Boulevard. But that s a tale to hear from those who received the directions and not those who, ahem, gave said directions (in good faith and totally without ill intent).

We toured the Arabia and even got a behind-the-scenes tour, which seemed to have left some in the group non-plussed. Our pubescent guide showed us the freezer, the cooler and the vats of poly ethylene glycol used to preserve the leather and wooden articles in the museum. It is estimated that there is still about 15 years worth of preservation to do before the entire collection will be suitable for exhibition. Part of this is the fact that there are only about 4 to 6 people at any given time doing the restoration of artifacts. They don t have internships but they do have a relatively good turn over. If you want a job, this might be the place to go although nearly everyone starts out as a guide and works their way up to conservator.

We ate lunch at a barbeque place in Market Square, then took a half hour and drooled over (literally at times) the goodies for sale there. Then it was off to Spivey s.

Spivey s bookstore is a great place to just go and browse. It has the atmosphere that a bookstore should have musty with a hint of cigar smoke. (Ok, the first floor where Mr. Spivey was had a little more than a hint.) There are books and old maps on just about every subject and location. There were even a few bargains. Madam President fawned over a trilogy written by some Eye-talian fella named Dante Somethingorother. Very few if any of us left the store empty-handed.

When we finished at the bookstore, the group split up. Most went straight home, while others of us went to Genghis Khan s and had some laripin good stir-fry.

To KC s credit, we found no out-of-date calendars in use.

The next meeting will be at the Cosmosphere/Dr. Price s place. Details TBA.

JD Hays, Scribe

The treasurer's report involved the familiar number of $1036.28, though
Charlie's reimbursement of $321.14 will take the balance down to
$715.14 within the next week or two.

Dr. Price reported that the AIAA team will come in way under the $5000
budget, thanks to waived use fees. All officers present agreed to
offer the extra funds back to AIAA, and agreed just as unanimously to
accept them if AIAA offered them back.

SPH's Oklahoma! trip is postponed until September. The June activity
is Butler County Day on the 21st. Activities run from 8 am to 8 pm and
include fun activities like money tosses and boring activities like
viewing farm machinery. Admission is $4 for adults. The president
will organize a carpool if enough interested parties respond.

Historian Lawrence continues to work on the website; he will keep up
with new events and plow through the archives bit by bit. New and
improved features will include a calendar and, of course, a shopping

The board will meet next on July 12 in Anthony, unless host JD Hays has
another "wheat harvest" and has to cancel. The executive retreat will
begin at noon. SPH's proletariat can contact Janice Rich for a group
activity the same day.

August's board meeting will be Saturday the 23rd at noon at the
President's house. In celebration of the three officers' birthdays
around that date, Mme. President has offered to grill her hassock. The
next general meeting will be in September, when we will try to bring in
fresh meat from the new 701 class.

The meeting adjourned at 8:41 pm amid heated discussion of art history.

Respectfully submitted by temporary scribe Theresa St.Romain

Minutes For SPH Trip June 21 2003

El Dorado
There was not very much sun
When dawned day June 21,
But mid-morning shone through a few rays, tho.
So SPH met for, and we didn t get wet for
Butler County Days at El Dorado.

We arrived none too soon
I think it was about noon,
And wished to eat at caf Silverado.
For their food we were hopin but alas they weren t open
So we ate at Job Lunch with bravado.

There showed up only three
Doc Price, Sandy and me
But we decided to make it a day-o.
We made all the rounds through the buildings and grounds
At the museum there in El Dorado.

The exhibits were great
The Asian display was first rate
And the docents looked grand (may we say so?)
And blessed by Sandy s good friend (the stellar Debbie Amend)
Peeked hind the scenes at El Dorado.

There were working oil rigs,
Musicians doing their gigs,
And a baler made hay look like Play-Doh.
And to our very good luck, rode a Model T truck
Cross those10 acres in El Dorado.

After 4 hours of play,
We called it a day
And met Charlie for burgers with Mayo.
We talked and we ate, the food really was great
At Beaumont tho, not El Dorado.

JD Hays, Scribe

SPH Meeting Minutes

Date: September 5, 2003
Time: 7:04
Place: Dr. Price s

In Attendance: Dr. Price, Melody Beard, Ben Hruska, Bill Head, Theresa St. Romain, Heidie Colucci, Mary Macklin, Dr. Arial Loftus, Charles Lawrence, Jennifer (no last name given), Melissa Thompson, Lori Sherril, Janice Rich, Steve and Suzy Webster, Dr. Jerry Martin (Anthropology Department).

The meeting began with introductions.

President Heidie Colucci explained to the group that she had resigned as president of SPH. J.D. Hays moved up the chain of command from secretary to president. Charlie Lawrence was now the secretary as well as historian. Theresa St. Romain insisted that she retain her position of treasurer until she gets her honeymoon paid for. J.D., who had his wife call in with some lame excuse why he could not attend, was not there to fulfill his obligations - so Heidie ran the meeting.

Heidie explained to all the function of SPH: to organize historic and museum tours, administer the grant program, promote conferences and other associations.

Upcoming Events:

Dr. Price talked about the upcoming KMA annual conference in Ulysses. He was working on a panel presentation for the conference and several SPHers would be involved.

The Medicine Lodge Peace Treaty pageant would be held on the weekend of September 27th. Those interested would meet on campus at 10 AM. The show would last about 2 hours and the group would return in the early evening. Ben Hruska planned to participate in the pageant, but would not be there on Saturday. Anyone wishing participate with him should let him know and prepare to be dressed in period costume. Tickets are $10 and those interested should contact Dr. Price.

Plans are being made for a field trip to Salina to visit the Smokey Hill Museum and the site of the famous Indian ossuary with museum director and graduate of the WSU Public History department Dee Harris.

Other possible trips: Tulsa Oklahoma. This trip had been scheduled for June, but was cancelled.

Treasurers Report:

CFO St. Romain stated that the group had $715.14 in the checking account. Funds from the AIAA book project had not yet been figured in.

SPH Web Site:

The web site address would soon be made available to all members, but would be moving to the WSU server.

Other News:

Dr. Price reported that recent Public History graduate and highly esteemed former SPH president Sandra Reddish had a part time job at the Ft. Riley Historic Museum. Sandra is currently working on her Ph.D. at K-State.

Dr. Loftus planned a trip to the Nelson-Adkins museum in Kansas City and would take interested students.

Janice Rich took a group from her church to the Harvey House in Florence and to the Chase Co. Courthouse for a tour. Over 20 people attended.

Dr. Price reported that the AIAA project, a book titled Wichita s Legacy of Flight would be released in October. Dr. Price and seven graduate students participated in the project. Speaking engagements would follow the book s release, which could potentially become a good fundraising activity for SPH.

Margaret Kline, the AIAA contact on the aviation book, has proposed another project to document the buildings used in Wichita for aviation production. No further details discussed.

Heidie Colucci and Charlie Lawrence discussed the Rent-a-Historian program to raise funds for SPH by contracting students out for short-term assignments at museums, historic sites, etc. Previous projects that have both raised funds and added to student s experience base have been contributing to the Smokey Hill Museum Trivia webpage as well as authoring the aviation book noted above. Dr. Price was working out some contract issues with the WSU legal department.

Dr. Jerry Martin explained that the Anthropology department had several classes that would be beneficial for the history student seeking a museum career: collecting, management, and preservation. The department also had several funded work study positions.

Steve Webster, a new student transferring from K-State told of an upcoming event at Matfield Green, KS. On Sat. Sept 13, the town would hold a train festival and open its renovated Santa Fe bunkhouse.

Closing Business:
The SPH/Public History display board committee would meet the following Thursday at 6 PM.

Meeting closed at 8:10

Submitted 10/12/03

SPH Board Meeting Minutes

Date: 9/15/03
Time: 6:00 PM
Place: Rhatigan Student Center
In Attendance: Dr. Price, JD Hays, Theresa St. Romain, Charlie Lawrence

Future Events:

A meeting to work on the SPH/Public History presentation board would take place at Dr. Price s place next Sunday (the 21st) at 2 PM.

Dr. Price would send a notice to all to arrange a group trip to the Kansas Aviation Festival on September 20th as well as arranging a trip to the Medicine Lodge Peace Pageant on September 27th.

Dr. Price will travel to Topeka on October 8th to present the Public History program to Wasburn University students. He will invite interested WSU Public History students to go with him.

The trip to the Smokey Hill Museum in Salina is planned for November 15th or 22nd. Dee Harris will host the group on a tour of the museum.

Dr. Price will host the SPH Christmas party on Thursday, Dec. 11.

The next general meeting will be on October 31st at Dr. Prices, around 6 or 7 o clock.

Theresa had the SPH survey results and would be compiling them.

Meeting ended around 7 PM.

Submitted 10/12/03